tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post9188257064753209680..comments2024-03-20T19:23:09.857+02:00Comments on Notes from underground: Whiteness just isn't what it used to be - book reviewSteve Hayeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11283123400540587033noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-43067249305177994242011-10-07T09:08:05.531+02:002011-10-07T09:08:05.531+02:00Cobus
"The form of invisible whiteness which...Cobus<br /><br />"<i>The form of invisible whiteness which I observe within the South African context is one where the history is being ignored, and the myth is created that race has nothing to do with the economic position of white people, it is simply because they have been working so hard.</i>"<br /><br />That is anything but invisible. <br /><br />It is concious and visible racism based on a conscious and visible white identity.Steve Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11283123400540587033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-27021856245214550752011-10-06T17:32:11.088+02:002011-10-06T17:32:11.088+02:00"it seems to be saying that even if we have d..."it seems to be saying that even if we have deconstructed whiteness, and dumped it, we must now reconstruct it in order to deconstruct it again"<br /><br />-That's how any collective identity works. A collective identity is an imagined community (c), a myth. In order to keep it in place, you have to reiterate it endlessely. You can't just put it in place once and expect it not to fall apart almost immediately.Clarissahttp://clarissasblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-72569662437975547992011-10-06T16:51:17.630+02:002011-10-06T16:51:17.630+02:00sorry, take out the first "relevant".sorry, take out the first "relevant".Cobushttp://mycontemplations.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-39957332585763933262011-10-06T16:32:15.194+02:002011-10-06T16:32:15.194+02:00Oh Steve, and where does this bring us? Wise is no...Oh Steve, and where does this bring us? Wise is not "inapplicable" to SA context, we need to read him contextually relevant. Where does it lead us if every voice writing for there specific context is considered inapplicable to any other context? If Wise says anything other than that whiteness should be studies in the peculiar way it was formed in a specific context, although read against the backdrop of an international process of racialisation, then I'll seriously question his authority on the subject, since you'll find this in any good introduction to whiteness.<br /><br />However, what we might want to consider is how white South Africans are being formed after 1994 by the global white rhetoric. We didn't create the language of "reversed racism" (which even teenagers in our communities now use), we simply took it over from the American scene where it was used for a long time before us. So we might want to remain sensitive to other strategies being copied as well.<br /><br />Whiteness in South Africa was not visible under Apartheid. But if the FW de Klerk foundation insist that we should stop all talk about race, and simultaneously insist that their idea that we should have "Afrikaans only" universities has nothing to do with race, then I start wondering whether we are copying ideas about invisible whiteness into our own context. <br /><br />The form of invisible whiteness which I observe within the South African context is one where the history is being ignored, and the myth is created that race has nothing to do with the economic position of white people, it is simply because they have been working so hard.<br /><br />Maybe I'm wrong (and I'm sure I can trust on you being there to point out the mistakes we make, which I'll appreciate), but I do have this hunch.Cobushttp://mycontemplations.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-18550373932431956942011-10-06T10:23:47.188+02:002011-10-06T10:23:47.188+02:00Cobus,
Yes, and that is one of the reasons why I...Cobus, <br /><br />Yes, and that is one of the reasons why I found Tim Wise's article inapplicable to South Africa.Steve Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11283123400540587033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-3113537808996330672011-10-06T10:20:21.323+02:002011-10-06T10:20:21.323+02:00I think it is quite an interesting read, but a bit...I think it is quite an interesting read, but a bit frustrating because of the lack of transparancy.<br /><br />I also think that, like you (as I pointed out in the <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chris_soc/" rel="nofollow">Christianity and Society forum</a>), Melissa Steyn mistakes pseudo-liberal pseudo-colourblindness for the real thing, and it is a serious mistake.Steve Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11283123400540587033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-70848944683609242112011-10-06T09:56:01.092+02:002011-10-06T09:56:01.092+02:00This is from another article shy wrote:
“The pa...This is from another article shy wrote: <br /><br />“The particular historical and political configuration in South Africa has meant that whites have never experienced their whiteness and the advantage it afforded them as invisible—one of the key components in the way whiteness is theorized in the metropolitan heart of whiteness.” (Steyn 2005, 122)Cobushttp://mycontemplations.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-64495401514597369972011-10-06T08:05:40.641+02:002011-10-06T08:05:40.641+02:00Interesting review! Well done for reading it: seem...Interesting review! Well done for reading it: seems I may have to get my hands on a copy to see if I agree with your review. You have raised some good questions about the book and the research within it.<br /><br />I'll see if I can find out more about the kinds of questions Melissa asked her respondents: I have a feeling this book was based on her Ph. D.Roger Sanerhttp://www.futurechurch.co.zanoreply@blogger.com