tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post5953445419892898132..comments2024-03-20T19:23:09.857+02:00Comments on Notes from underground: Treasures old and new -- synchroblog on new monasticismSteve Hayeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11283123400540587033noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-64945814745106722972008-04-20T06:15:00.000+02:002008-04-20T06:15:00.000+02:00Bishop Alan,Yes, the tension between bishops and a...Bishop Alan,<BR/><BR/>Yes, the tension between bishops and abbots is a perennial one. The early Irish Church dealt with it in an interesting way. <BR/><BR/>In the case of Windhoek, the bishop had been dean before he was elected bishop, and for a long time continued to live in the deanery next to the cathedral, and so that give him an additional motive for wanting to see the cathedral round of services, but it was easy for him, living on the spot.Steve Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11283123400540587033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-16647176076610718252008-04-19T22:25:00.000+02:002008-04-19T22:25:00.000+02:00Steve,Many thanks for this helpful narrative. Pers...Steve,<BR/><BR/>Many thanks for this helpful narrative. Personally I think the structure of community is less important than its processes, and the issues round these resolve back to the three areas of concern Benedict depicts in Cap 58 of the rule — Conversion, Stability, Obedience. There was always tension between bishops and abbots in the middle ages — not handled much better than your bishop in SA handled relationships ith your base community.Bishop Alan Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13879516755776951638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-22658622273306273052008-03-26T13:45:00.000+02:002008-03-26T13:45:00.000+02:00Wow, this was great Steve. And I agree, the "new m...Wow, this was great Steve. And I agree, the "new monasticism" is still in its infancy and could still learn a lot from the "old monasticism"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-20254752383227810722008-03-21T17:12:00.000+02:002008-03-21T17:12:00.000+02:00Steve,Thank you for sharing your fascinating exper...Steve,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for sharing your fascinating experience with communal living in the Community of St. Simon the Zealot and later with the Children of God.<BR/><BR/>However I do see a difference between intentional Christian communal living and monasticism. <BR/><BR/>Monasticism historically is under the cover of the Church. This implies a common creed of belief, common commitment to a case and accountability. <BR/><BR/>Most Christian communes do not have this. Instead they come together probably because of a charismatic leader who is usually independent and not held accountable by anybody.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for the links in this post.Alex Tanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04003300678212296112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-66143990183027810572008-03-18T09:04:00.000+02:002008-03-18T09:04:00.000+02:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-77201171037997866112008-03-14T05:19:00.000+02:002008-03-14T05:19:00.000+02:00Steve,Thank you for sharing part of your story. Th...Steve,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for sharing part of your story. This has been very helpful for me.<BR/><BR/>-AlanAlan Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07452247058550736803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-57630447787732411002008-03-13T19:15:00.000+02:002008-03-13T19:15:00.000+02:00Great and fascinating history. I heaved a sigh of...Great and fascinating history. I heaved a sigh of recognition at your thing about being expected to travel in to pray at the cathedral... <BR/><BR/>I think the term "neo-monasticism" is most useful if it is seen only as one kind of option within the broader category of "intentional community" or "Christian community." Not every group of Christians living together for a common purpose is really drawing on monastic models, spirituality, or style. "Monastic" is the popular buzzword now, but I think in some cases it muddies the waters more than helps.Bethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00962344659360885159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-51780236550450429242008-03-13T18:36:00.000+02:002008-03-13T18:36:00.000+02:00Phil,Yes, the Maravians' Herrnhut community was ce...Phil,<BR/><BR/>Yes, the Maravians' Herrnhut community was certainly a missional one, and was one of the first expressions of Protestant mission.<BR/><BR/>I was very glad to have met the Children of God when I did, and I simply can't imagine the ones we met getting into the whacky things they got into later. There were hints of that in the "Mo letters", but nothing in the people we met.Steve Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11283123400540587033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-79466634470341797092008-03-13T16:57:00.000+02:002008-03-13T16:57:00.000+02:00Hey Steve,I love this modern history of monastic e...Hey Steve,<BR/><BR/>I love this modern history of monastic expressions. I've had some contact with the Children of God as well - although later when they were far-wacked. I've met with communal Hari Krishna, and ran a live-in drug and alcohol rehab program, which was an intentional community of worship with all things in common (though perhaps I never thought of this as monastic - yet in retrospect I suppose it was radically so!)<BR/><BR/>I am not sure I identify with the final conclusion as the answer to balance. Yet, I am seriously Anabaptist in tendency. ;-)<BR/><BR/>When I think of intentional community as missional the Moravian Brethren come to mind, and we perhaps have yet to see the intensity of mission engagement by any group as that which ol' Count Z helped initiate.<BR/><BR/>I suppose I see the failing of well organized religious tradition as tending toward legalistic and dead, and the tendency of independent groups to become heretical, or weird. I am not sure one weakness is better than another in the eyes of heaven.<BR/><BR/>This is one of my favorite posts of yours - thanks.Pastor Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07344719487413688550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-15566018474779369852008-03-13T16:19:00.001+02:002008-03-13T16:19:00.001+02:00So interesting to read this history, and some of i...So interesting to read this history, and some of it explains why many fear communal situations. At the same time, with a focus on Jesus I believe community living to be a fantastic forum for discipleship in the ways of Jesus.Bryan Rileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00788345747841842640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-41213712777871559242008-03-13T16:19:00.000+02:002008-03-13T16:19:00.000+02:00So interesting to read this history, and some of i...So interesting to read this history, and some of it explains why many fear communal situations. At the same time, with a focus on Jesus I believe community living to be a fantastic forum for discipleship in the ways of Jesus.Bryan Rileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00788345747841842640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-88760099143382926702008-03-13T10:46:00.000+02:002008-03-13T10:46:00.000+02:00I've had a number of conversations with the guy I'...I've had a number of conversations with the guy I'm currently living in community with about how to make sure a communal setting doesn't get... strange. Religious people have a way of easily getting strange. Connecting with a long tradition could help with this, I think this is what I hear from you. ThanxCobushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15312917783823575581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-69865953824275626782008-03-13T06:37:00.000+02:002008-03-13T06:37:00.000+02:00Skylding,Yes, in my post I alluded to one of the m...Skylding,<BR/><BR/>Yes, in my post I alluded to one of the movements we have discussed before, and that is one of the ones that led me to my conclusion. Loose cannon authoritarian leaders usually cause lots of problems.Steve Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11283123400540587033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-45298481003826466792008-03-13T00:21:00.000+02:002008-03-13T00:21:00.000+02:00Interesting post, Steve. We have in other forums b...Interesting post, Steve. We have in other forums briefly discussed at least one of those movements which became authoritarian and strange... I think that unless such a movement is strongly bound creedaly, and not independant with a single leader / small group of leaders, it is bound to go off the rails. This observation comes from personal experience with at least 2 such phenomena, for lack of a better term.Magotty Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06039164409659890130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-49551822159431419532008-03-12T23:30:00.000+02:002008-03-12T23:30:00.000+02:00really fascinating to read about your journey thro...really fascinating to read about your journey through this Steve, for those of us in a younger generation, the experience of yourselves and others is incredibly valuable. Occasionally I'm in danger of thinking of new monasticism as a 'new thing' but then I reflect, and see in it what you are talking about, the grand heritage of counter cultural Christianity. Thanks for your insight, looking forward to more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com