tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post116193243688328597..comments2024-03-20T19:23:09.857+02:00Comments on Notes from underground: Orthodoxy, postmodernity and the emerging churchSteve Hayeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11283123400540587033noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-41916777918429764192006-11-17T10:44:00.000+02:002006-11-17T10:44:00.000+02:00Someone asked for this entry, but the URL was too ...Someone asked for this entry, but the URL was too long, so I created a shorter link:<br /><br />http://tinyurl.com/yxta2uSteve Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11283123400540587033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-1162520014716890642006-11-03T04:13:00.000+02:002006-11-03T04:13:00.000+02:00Quite thought provoking. Definitely needs a re-rea...Quite thought provoking. Definitely needs a re-read for this newbie. <BR/><BR/>I usually read your LJ but noticed you hadn't posted anything in a while. I'm glad I decided to dig through your site and find this one. I need to add this to my Bloglines file.DebDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12594843598589340808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-1162352503701691892006-11-01T05:41:00.000+02:002006-11-01T05:41:00.000+02:00Sally,Of course you may link... I'm just finding i...Sally,<BR/><BR/>Of course you may link... I'm just finding it a bit difficult to link to you, as when I click on your name the text of your posting appears and disappears, but I don't seem to get anywhere.<BR/><BR/>"The doctor",<BR/><BR/>Much Western "conservative" thought is thoroughly modern, and is embedded in moderninty, even when criticising other aspects of modern thought. Fundamentalist prooftexting, for example, is deeply rooted in modernist assumptions, including the idea that to every question there is an answer.Steve Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11283123400540587033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-1162271578626485822006-10-31T07:12:00.000+02:002006-10-31T07:12:00.000+02:00Steve, I think you're squarely on the mark with yo...Steve, I think you're squarely on the mark with your comments about the modern West and the post-modern West. In my gradual process of "converting" my point of view, after resolving to convert from U.S. Anglicanism (Episcopal Church) to Orthodoxy, I have discovered several things I had not expected. One is the persistence of the pre-modern point of view, in Orthodoxy.<BR/><BR/>This is a point of view I encountered in my undergraduate years, when I was exposed to "ancient"/"classical" literature, such as the writings of Plato and Aristotle. Modern academics examine these writings at a distance, at arm's length; they no longer walk with these authors, arm in arm, conversing with them as members of the same intellectual community.<BR/><BR/>For this reason, I think, much of the writing of the early Christians appears alien to the modern reader. This includes portions of the letters of St Paul, as well as some of the writings of not-much-later authors such as St Justin the Philosopher (aka Justin Martyr), whose typology (for example) looks so strange to modern Western readers.<BR/><BR/>Modern Western Christians are likely either to dismiss such passages as "irrelevant" or else to re-interpret them in "relevant" terms. This was the root of Bultmann's famous efforts to "de-mythologize" Scripture. He simply thought it was a matter of "mythology." He didn't see this clash between his own modern viewpoint and the viewpoint of the early Church as a critique of his modern viewpoint; he accepted it, and tried to change the Christian viewpoint to his.<BR/><BR/>I think we ex-Westerners all know how well that worked, in the pews.<BR/><BR/>In short, I agree with your proposition that this same pre-modern viewpoint is the routine, ordinary, default viewpoint in Orthodoxy, today.<BR/><BR/>And I think that a large measure of whatever measure of common spirit that Western conservatives (of whatever faction) find with Orthodoxy comes from whatever degree to which they themselves have retained that pre-modern spirit.<BR/><BR/>Can't speak to post-modern or "emerging church" stuff, haven't been aware of encountering it personally. But being aware of this retention of pre-modernity helps me be aware of yet another aspect of the remarkable continuity of Orthodoxy with the early Church ... a continuity that the Protestants (at least) have been struggling to re-establish for centuries.The Doctorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16398122660433049365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-1162123900377525582006-10-29T14:11:00.000+02:002006-10-29T14:11:00.000+02:00Thank you for this Steve- I have often struggeled ...Thank you for this Steve- I have often struggeled with the use of the word spirituality that so often introduces a duality to our thinking... may I liknk to your post pleaseSallyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01759963926280667938noreply@blogger.com