tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post1607298663347332442..comments2024-03-20T19:23:09.857+02:00Comments on Notes from underground: Rock-solid nebulous hot airSteve Hayeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11283123400540587033noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-42121502217997423792009-12-23T18:52:03.831+02:002009-12-23T18:52:03.831+02:00You'd think that the ACLU was a communist orga...<i>You'd think that the ACLU was a communist organization by the rhetoric used in that campaign, and similar rhetoric is used today, confusing Liberalism with Socialism and even totalitarianism.</i><br /><br />Ploni: Unfortunately, I've actually heard members of the U.S. Republican party <i>explicitly</i> call the ACLU both Communist and Socialist.Jarredhttp://musings.northerngrove.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-80028596016573159762009-12-23T11:36:33.437+02:002009-12-23T11:36:33.437+02:00I think the problem is that, at least in the Unite...I think the problem is that, at least in the United States, the term "Liberal" has been confabulated with "Left-wing" when in reality they are different.<br /><br />The Canadian Liberal Party, for example, is strongly in favor of free markets and the like, and nobody would make that confusion of terminology within their political discourse.<br /><br />The term "liberal" in American discourse has changed, from what could be called a mild form of "libertarian" to a pejorative from the right-wing for the centrist American politicians. "A card carrying member of the ACLU", for example, as George H.W. Bush said of Michael Dukakis during a political campaign, who was also called labeled by the right as the "liberal" candidate. <br /><br />You'd think that the ACLU was a communist organization by the rhetoric used in that campaign, and similar rhetoric is used today, confusing Liberalism with Socialism and even totalitarianism.<br /><br />I say this and I'm not even very "liberal" myself in either sense of the word, just upset that political discourse has become "nebulous hot air" in the words of the blogger.Ploni Almonihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12131538106813973665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-63710472531493005242009-12-22T09:16:05.289+02:002009-12-22T09:16:05.289+02:00Skylding,
Yes, "liberal" and "cons...Skylding,<br /><br />Yes, "liberal" and "conservative" are well-nigh skunked, but people still insist on using them with great frequency.Steve Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11283123400540587033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-62405589951024328942009-12-21T22:48:26.522+02:002009-12-21T22:48:26.522+02:00Steve, the words "liberal" and "con...Steve, the words "liberal" and "conservative" are both bereft of their meaning. Might as well concede. <br /><br />I know, I know. But what can you do?Magotty Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06039164409659890130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-83673877723688215962009-12-20T02:55:04.075+02:002009-12-20T02:55:04.075+02:00Chris,
I've been a liberal for most of my lif...Chris,<br /><br />I've been a liberal for most of my life, and at one time I was a card-carrying member of the Liberal Party. In its literature the Liberal Party often printed the disclaimer: "The Liberal Party is opposed to all forms of totalitatianism, such as fascism and communism."<br /><br />That was because the Liberal Party was accused of being fascist by the left, and of being communist by the right. Eventually the Liberal Party was forced to disband, by the fascists. So "t6otalitarian liberals" is a contradiction in terms. If they are totalitarian, they are not liberal, and if they are liberal they are not totalitarian.Steve Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11283123400540587033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-5873891068421000472009-12-19T18:52:43.176+02:002009-12-19T18:52:43.176+02:00Chris: I'm not Steve, but I'll answer you...Chris: I'm not Steve, but I'll answer you. No, I don't get that feeling at all.<br /><br />Uncompromising when it comes to liberty and justice for all rather than liberty and justice for everyone but those people? Yes. Strongly opinionated? Yes. Willing to forcefully explain why they hold the position they do in the face of dissent? Yes. Intolerant of intolerance? Yes.<br /><br />Intolerant of dissent? Nope. In fact, there's a lot of dissent <i>among liberals</i>.Jarredhttp://musings.northerngrove.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19384577.post-50681865063956150772009-12-19T10:56:41.604+02:002009-12-19T10:56:41.604+02:00Bit harsh there Steve!
Don't you get the feel...Bit harsh there Steve!<br /><br />Don't you get the feeling that those who claim to have the most 'liberal' agenda are often among the most intolerant of dissent? Hence the 'Totalitarian' maybe?Chris Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18319782662130679058noreply@blogger.com